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WuDao
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刀币 31776 元
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注册 2002-12-17
来自 中国 P R China
蛇矛 Snake Lance



[ 本贴由 旺仔 于 2004-1-1 11:27 AM 最后编辑 ]

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Chinese Sword, a remarkable and unassailable symbol of ancient Chinese civilization and spirit of his people. It  reflects five most essential spirits of every Chinese man:  仁 Ren (benevolence),  义 Yi (righteousness),  礼 Li (principles),  智 Zhi (intelligence) and  信 Xin (trustworthiness).  
2003-12-29 22:02
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WuDao
论坛管理员




刀币 31776 元
发帖 13236 篇
注册 2002-12-17
来自 中国 P R China


本贴包含图片附件:

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Chinese Sword, a remarkable and unassailable symbol of ancient Chinese civilization and spirit of his people. It  reflects five most essential spirits of every Chinese man:  仁 Ren (benevolence),  义 Yi (righteousness),  礼 Li (principles),  智 Zhi (intelligence) and  信 Xin (trustworthiness).  
2003-12-29 22:02
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WuDao
论坛管理员




刀币 31776 元
发帖 13236 篇
注册 2002-12-17
来自 中国 P R China


本贴包含图片附件:

点击查看全图

Chinese Sword, a remarkable and unassailable symbol of ancient Chinese civilization and spirit of his people. It  reflects five most essential spirits of every Chinese man:  仁 Ren (benevolence),  义 Yi (righteousness),  礼 Li (principles),  智 Zhi (intelligence) and  信 Xin (trustworthiness).  
2003-12-29 22:03
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WuDao
论坛管理员




刀币 31776 元
发帖 13236 篇
注册 2002-12-17
来自 中国 P R China


本贴包含图片附件:

点击查看全图

Chinese Sword, a remarkable and unassailable symbol of ancient Chinese civilization and spirit of his people. It  reflects five most essential spirits of every Chinese man:  仁 Ren (benevolence),  义 Yi (righteousness),  礼 Li (principles),  智 Zhi (intelligence) and  信 Xin (trustworthiness).  
2003-12-29 22:03
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WuDao
论坛管理员




刀币 31776 元
发帖 13236 篇
注册 2002-12-17
来自 中国 P R China


本贴包含图片附件:

点击查看全图

Chinese Sword, a remarkable and unassailable symbol of ancient Chinese civilization and spirit of his people. It  reflects five most essential spirits of every Chinese man:  仁 Ren (benevolence),  义 Yi (righteousness),  礼 Li (principles),  智 Zhi (intelligence) and  信 Xin (trustworthiness).  
2003-12-29 22:03
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WuDao
论坛管理员




刀币 31776 元
发帖 13236 篇
注册 2002-12-17
来自 中国 P R China


本贴包含图片附件:

点击查看全图

Chinese Sword, a remarkable and unassailable symbol of ancient Chinese civilization and spirit of his people. It  reflects five most essential spirits of every Chinese man:  仁 Ren (benevolence),  义 Yi (righteousness),  礼 Li (principles),  智 Zhi (intelligence) and  信 Xin (trustworthiness).  
2003-12-29 22:03
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独孤求剑
白金长老




刀币 4940 元
发帖 799 篇
注册 2002-12-17
来自 罗浮山飞云顶
难得的实战器.但感觉矛头与尾攒不是一个工艺层次上的作品,年份上也有一定距离.

Rare actual combating ware.But it feels that the lance head and the cauda are not the same level technique works.So is the age.

[ 本贴由 旺仔 于 2004-1-1 11:29 AM 最后编辑 ]

风尘三尺剑   社稷一戎衣
2003-12-30 11:40
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金相显微
劳模



刀币 25752 元
发帖 11693 篇
注册 2002-12-17
来自 那旮瘩
嘿嘿,和小人书上的一模一样!

It's the same as that on my book!

[ 本贴由 旺仔 于 2004-1-1 11:29 AM 最后编辑 ]
2003-12-30 11:50
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环首刀
高级会员




刀币 129 元
发帖 59 篇
注册 2003-12-4
来自 江南
问一个问题,这不象清代的长兵吧?
   清代长兵大都没枪攥吗?

Ask a question that is it like the long weapon in Qing dynasty?
Most long weapon in Qing dynasty has no spear hold?

[ 本贴由 旺仔 于 2004-1-1 11:31 AM 最后编辑 ]
2003-12-30 12:25
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老四
黄金长老




刀币 1466 元
发帖 731 篇
注册 2003-7-8
难得一见的好东西。

A rare good thing.

[ 本贴由 旺仔 于 2004-1-1 11:31 AM 最后编辑 ]
2003-12-30 12:59
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梁一刃
白金长老




刀币 4538 元
发帖 2223 篇
注册 2003-2-22
东西老,品相好,攒的技术太劣,不如单展示矛头效果好。

Old thing,good appearance,bad assemblage technique,not good as showing the single lance head.

[ 本贴由 旺仔 于 2004-1-1 11:33 AM 最后编辑 ]
2003-12-30 13:31
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WuDao
论坛管理员




刀币 31776 元
发帖 13236 篇
注册 2002-12-17
来自 中国 P R China


  引用:
梁一刃 于 2003-12-30 01:31 PM 写道:
攒的技术太劣  

何以见得是攒的?

How did you descry that it's assembled?

[ 本贴由 旺仔 于 2004-1-1 11:33 AM 最后编辑 ]

Chinese Sword, a remarkable and unassailable symbol of ancient Chinese civilization and spirit of his people. It  reflects five most essential spirits of every Chinese man:  仁 Ren (benevolence),  义 Yi (righteousness),  礼 Li (principles),  智 Zhi (intelligence) and  信 Xin (trustworthiness).  
2003-12-30 13:45
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梁一刃
白金长老




刀币 4538 元
发帖 2223 篇
注册 2003-2-22
矛头与杆的连接方式存在问题。

There's problem on the joint between lance head and pole.

[ 本贴由 旺仔 于 2004-1-1 11:34 AM 最后编辑 ]
2003-12-30 15:01
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WuDao
论坛管理员




刀币 31776 元
发帖 13236 篇
注册 2002-12-17
来自 中国 P R China


  引用:
梁一刃 于 2003-12-30 03:01 PM 写道:
矛头与杆的连接方式存在问题。

问题何在?
请明示
谢谢

What's the problem?
Please point it out.
Thanks.

[ 本贴由 旺仔 于 2004-1-1 11:35 AM 最后编辑 ]

Chinese Sword, a remarkable and unassailable symbol of ancient Chinese civilization and spirit of his people. It  reflects five most essential spirits of every Chinese man:  仁 Ren (benevolence),  义 Yi (righteousness),  礼 Li (principles),  智 Zhi (intelligence) and  信 Xin (trustworthiness).  
2003-12-30 15:12
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酉阳
黄金长老




刀币 1660 元
发帖 802 篇
注册 2002-12-19
给人的感觉:矛不如钻规矩。

The sense give to people : the lance is not regular as drill.

[ 本贴由 旺仔 于 2004-1-1 11:36 AM 最后编辑 ]
2003-12-30 20:40
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WuDao
论坛管理员




刀币 31776 元
发帖 13236 篇
注册 2002-12-17
来自 中国 P R China


  引用:
酉阳 于 2003-12-30 08:40 PM 写道:
给人的感觉:矛不如钻规矩。

中肯
我也有同感
但不是得出攒的充要条件

如果是正常的矛头
与攢的风格区别就很大
拼凑的可能性就会较大(非绝对)
但蛇矛本身的形状就是奇特和不那么规矩的

It's pertinent.
So do I.
But it's not the reason why it's assembled.

If it's the natural lance head.
It's far different from the style of assemblage.
So it's more possible that it's medley.(not absolute)
But the shape of snake lance is special and irregular.

[ 本贴由 旺仔 于 2004-1-1 11:40 AM 最后编辑 ]

Chinese Sword, a remarkable and unassailable symbol of ancient Chinese civilization and spirit of his people. It  reflects five most essential spirits of every Chinese man:  仁 Ren (benevolence),  义 Yi (righteousness),  礼 Li (principles),  智 Zhi (intelligence) and  信 Xin (trustworthiness).  
2003-12-30 20:48
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酉阳
黄金长老




刀币 1660 元
发帖 802 篇
注册 2002-12-19
   如果作为一件实战兵器而言,我觉得老大的话值得商榷。蛇矛的形状可以说是奇特,但不代表它的制作工艺不精湛(所谓不规矩)。三国张飞,水浒林冲,人尽皆知以长矛为兵器。可见其在实战中的杀伤力还是受到古人的肯定的。我们从这只矛的钻部向上看:钻,木杆和矛头。就会有这样的感觉:看到精美的钻和讲究的木杆以后,会觉得矛头也应透出一股精气神。但这只矛头给我们的感觉有点像铁匠偷懒了,与整体不甚协调。当然,此器没有见到实物,仅凭照片妄加评判难免挂一漏万,请无刀老大指点。

If speaking as an actual combating weapon,brother's words I think were valuable to consult.The shape of snake lance can be considered as special,but it doesn't stand for its not fine manufacture technique(so-called irregular).Zhangfei in Sanguo and Linchong in Shuihu were known that they used lance as weapon.It proved that it's affirmed by ancient people for its great execution in actual combat.Let's look up from the part of drill : drill,wood pole and lance head.You will get such a feeling that the lance head should be of a spirit after seeing the fine drill and cultured wood pole.But this lance head gives us the feeling that it's not consistent because of the goldbrick.Of course,I didn't see the real thing,and judge only by pics.Please comment brother Wudao.

[ 本贴由 旺仔 于 2004-1-1 11:50 AM 最后编辑 ]
2003-12-30 21:16
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WuDao
论坛管理员




刀币 31776 元
发帖 13236 篇
注册 2002-12-17
来自 中国 P R China


  引用:
[i][/i] 于 2003-12-30 09:16 PM 写道:
如果作为一件实战兵器而言,我觉得老大的话值得商榷。蛇矛的形状可以说是奇特,但不代表它的制作工艺不精湛(所谓不规矩)。三国张飞,水浒林冲,人尽皆知以长矛为兵器。可见其在实战中的杀伤力还是受到古人的肯定的 ......

以兄上面几句话来说:
(1)不规矩和制作工艺不精,应该是两个不同的概念。规矩指的是规范化和形状的规整,与工艺是否精湛是两回事情。我们会说,某些工艺品很精美,但不中规中矩。

(2)不知道酉阳所指的精湛是用什么标准,如果指锻造精良,加钢完整,热处理专业,那评这些照片是看不出来的(我也看不出)。但相信这些才是决定实战中的杀伤力的首要条件。这和张飞林冲扯不到一起。(补充:《三国志》记载张飞的兵器好象不是蛇矛。林冲在宋史未见记载。)。蛇矛在三国好象还没有。

(3)如果从外型来定工艺精湛,或者把外表的好看同杀伤力联系在一起,更值得商榷。很多战场长兵甚至粗大不求细节,但杀伤力也许更大。

(4)比较躜和杆,并不认为矛头粗糙。这也许是欣赏角度不同吧。

Said according to what brother said above:
(1) Irregularity and not fine manufacture technique should be the two different concepts.Regularity means standardization and the regularity of shape,and is not relative to whether the technique is fine or not.We would say that some craftwork is fine but not regular.

(2) Wonder the fine pointed by Youyang stands on what standard.If it means the fine forging,intact steel added,heat treatment,it can't be descried only by these pics(so do I).But I believe that it's the chief condition deciding its execution.It's not relative to Zhangfei and Linchong.(Attach:the weapon used by Zhangfei recorded in seemed not snake lance.And Linchong was not recorded in Song history.)Snake lance seemed not to appear in Sanguo.

(3) If judging the fine technique by shape or connecting beautiful outlook with execution,it's more valuable to discuss.A lot of long weapon is crassus,but it's of great execution.

(4) Comparing drill and pole,I don't think the lance head is rough.It may be due to the different view point.

[ 本贴由 旺仔 于 2004-1-1 12:05 PM 最后编辑 ]

Chinese Sword, a remarkable and unassailable symbol of ancient Chinese civilization and spirit of his people. It  reflects five most essential spirits of every Chinese man:  仁 Ren (benevolence),  义 Yi (righteousness),  礼 Li (principles),  智 Zhi (intelligence) and  信 Xin (trustworthiness).  
2003-12-30 21:55
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